Comments on: Health Insurance is not a "Right"

By: NGill

NGill — Fri, 02 Feb 2007 19:52:54 +0000

However egregious the taxation system in this country maybe-I can tell you that unless you have lived in a country where there is no or a inadequate tax base, you will never realize how bad it could reaally be. Everything from the 911 system, the highways that one can drive 70mph without (generally) fearing a texas sized pothole (pun intended) to appear out of nowhere, generally uninterrupted electric and water supply are because of the taxes that everybody hates. And that list does not include healthcare….I am not arguing that the govt should tax us more, it could definetely handle and use those taxes better….

By: Goatwhacker

Goatwhacker — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:46:30 +0000

The stats for waiting times for certain procedures in Canada are on-line and do make interesting reading (waiting times are under the W section). http://secure.cihi.ca/cihiweb/dispPage.jsp?cw_page=statistics_a_z_e#W

By: Anne

Anne — Sun, 28 Jan 2007 18:12:53 +0000

Jim, the thing you’re forgetting is that the above occurence is probably the only time that has ever happened. That’s part of the scare tactics that people opposed to expanding health insurance use. They’ll pick a rare occurence and pretend it’s how the system always works. Think of the horror stories that could also be used to talk about how bad the American system is. It doesn’t mean that it always happens.

By: Jim in Texas

Jim in Texas — Sat, 27 Jan 2007 14:19:28 +0000

As for N=1′s comments;

“medical bills are a contributing factor in just 17 percent of personal bankruptcies and that those affected tend to have incomes closer to poverty level than to middle class. Moreover, for national health insurance to have an impact, it would have to define “medical” expenses in a much broader way than is now typical of either private or government-funded plans.”

“Medical Bankruptcy: Myth Versus Fact”

http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/abstract/25/2/w74

And while I realize that the following is a worst-case description the fact that it occurred at all is, I think to most Americans, unthinkable.

” By Mark Steyn “America Alone”

http://www.amazon.com/America-Alone-End-World-Know/dp/0895260786

In 2004, Debrah Cornthwaite gave birth to twin boys at the Royal Alexandra Hospital in Edmonton. That’s in Alberta. Mrs. Cornthwaite had begun the big day by going to her local maternity ward at Langley Memorial Hospital. That’s in British Columbia. They told her, yes, your contractions are coming every four minutes, but sorry, we don’t have any beds. And, after they’d checked with the bed-availability helpline “BC Bedline,” they brought her the further good news that there was not a hospital in the province in which she could deliver her babies. There followed seven hours of red tape and paperwork. Then, late in the evening, she was driven to the airport and put on a chartered twin-prop to Edmonton. In the course of the flight, the contractions increased to every two and a half minutes–and most Lamaze classes don’t teach timing your breathing to turbulence over the Rockies.

How many Americans would want to do that on delivery day? You pack your bag and head to your local hospital in Oakland, and they say: Not to worry, we’ve got a bed for you in Denver.”

A friend of mine said it much more elegantly than I can.

“I don’t agree that health care provision is a ‘fundamental right’. A fundamental right isn’t something we provide, it is something that simply exists or, as in the words of the Declaration of Independence, something we are “endowed with by our creator”. We have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. We have the right to keep and bear arms. We have the right of assembly, and the right to worship as we please. Note that these rights do not entail a moral or legal encumberance on the labors of others, they just require that we leave them alone and let them pursue their freedoms.

There are some rights that do require an investment of our labor and monies – the right to a speedy trial and to a trial by jury comes immediately to mind. However, I believe we have an obligation to our freedom to limit the number of such rights to the bare minimum, lest we all make ourselves servants of the government rather than free citizens. As it is, we work about one-third of the year indentured to the government, as that is how much of our labor is consumed by taxes. I do not favor increasing that level of servitude.

I believe that we, as a compassionate people, should extend heath care provision to those in need. This however, is a charity, not a right. We have no obligation to seek out those in need and ensure they have access to health care, other than that obligation our charitable nature imposes upon us.”

By: Carrie (NeoNurseChic)

Carrie (NeoNurseChic) — Sat, 27 Jan 2007 08:46:28 +0000

And going off of that last bit there – some of us do not spend disposable income. Read above to see my financial status and I still have opted for the most expensive health care plan the hospital offers. This is because I know that in my situation, good health care is not optional – I have to have it. I tried doing an HMO plan once to save money, and it ended up costing me MORE because of what the plan did not cover – which was my DME home oxygen that I use for cluster headaches, and at least 4 of my meds, including reflux meds and expensive antiseizure drugs that I take for headaches, etc. They also did not cover the dexa scan I needed to get, so I simply didn’t get one. I didn’t get any xrays or MRIs while on it – only waited until after I was back on a PPO because it was so frustrating – and then I found out I had avascular necrosis after getting those scans – if I’d stayed on the HMO, I might not have caught it for an even later amount of time. Those 2 months I was on that were the worst 2 months of my life.

I’m not knocking people who aren’t offered several options for good insurance, but I am going to say that it really bothers me when people have the option for good health insurance and the money to pay for it, and they don’t even get it. Because then when those people get sick, we all end up paying for them, too, and that’s not right. I do think, however, that for those who don’t have disposable income to pay on health insurance, some type of basic universal coverage would be extremely helpful. I would still want to keep my private plan, but I think a universal coverage basic plan might still benefit people even like me who are in the working middle class and have high health care costs…

Take care,
Carrie

By: TheNewGuy

TheNewGuy — Sat, 27 Jan 2007 04:32:09 +0000

They have the money, they have the political clout, and the attitude that if someone living below the poverty line, who cant find the American dream of making over 100k every year, then they dont deserve to share their healthcare perks.

Tim,

I know this is going to get me the “cold-hearted capitalist bastard” label, but if people can pay more, and choose to spend their disposable income on better health coverage, why shouldn’t they be able to get more? Even many countries with “universal” coverage allow people the ability to purchase private insurance with benefits over-and-above the run-of-the-mill govt. insurance.

People that are dependent on the kindness (and financing) of others shouldn’t be left out in the cold, but neither should they expect to have instant gratification (there may be waits for certain things), or coverage with all the frills. It’d be nice to have Cadillac coverage at a Yugo price… but the money has to come from somewhere.

By: Tim

Tim — Sat, 27 Jan 2007 02:40:21 +0000

I don’t think universal healthcare will come to the US for a long time, it *is* very different from Canada (and I have lived in both countries). I think the blunt fact is that people in the US who have good salaries will not accept sharing the finite resources (doctors, medicine, equipment, etc.) They have the money, they have the political clout, and the attitude that if someone living below the poverty line, who cant find the American dream of making over 100k every year, then they dont deserve to share their healthcare perks.

In Canada and England they believe more in the common good rather than the scramble to the top. Exceptions include English football fans.

By: Carrie (NeoNurseChic)

Carrie (NeoNurseChic) — Sat, 27 Jan 2007 02:18:55 +0000

Greg,

While I am not a doctor – this is the reason why I work so hard to share my story and why I keep both sides of my life on my blog. I am a nurse and a patient. I will one day be a nurse practitioner, and I’d like to work in pediatric neurology. However, I also struggle with some major medical problems. I’m not going to hide them away because I think it is important for people to see that nurses (and doctors) are people, too. I’ve always said that nobody is immune from illness – including health care professionals.

Take care,
Carrie :)

By: Greg P

Greg P — Sat, 27 Jan 2007 01:50:31 +0000

One thing I would like to point out is that doctors also speak and see things from the patient’s perspective. We need health care and pay for health care insurance, too.

By: TheNewGuy

TheNewGuy — Sat, 27 Jan 2007 00:59:36 +0000

those opposed believe that living in gated communities, isolating themselves from the “unwashed” who do not have access to healthcare, and choosing to ignore the suffering of those who don’t have adequate healthcare

So I get done beating one of my servants for missing a spot on the kitchen floor (I make them lick it clean), and find N=1′s post. Who let the cat out of the bag? It was supposed to be a secret that we’re all Marie Antoinette with a stethoscope.

What a load of crap.

You might want to take care of the “unwashed” as I do… with respect, dignity, compassion, and with my best efforts, then walk in here and join the discussion. After reading your post, I’d judge that your opinion is worth less than the homeless man’s vomit I just washed off my shoes.

None of us are arguing that people should be tossed out into the street to die. What an offensive bit of tripe. You can argue all the social justice you want, but I’d advise removing that marxist-driven hate-the-rich chip from your shoulder if you want to be taken seriously.